1 00:00:22,430 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:25,260 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:31,620 --> 00:00:28,690 episode number 241 for the second of 4 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:31,630 june 2013 Richard Saunders here with you 5 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:34,210 from Sydney Australia right up the road 6 00:00:40,110 --> 00:00:37,480 as it were from my trip and talk I gave 7 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:40,120 in Canberra in the Australian Capital 8 00:00:44,190 --> 00:00:42,070 Territory thank you to all those people 9 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:44,200 who came along to the lecture theatre 10 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:47,170 there the CSIRO discovery center here my 11 00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:48,850 talk adventures of an Australian 12 00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:51,280 paranormal investigator what a great 13 00:00:55,950 --> 00:00:53,860 time I had and thank you to those people 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:00:55,960 who came back with me to King O'Malley's 15 00:01:01,979 --> 00:00:58,890 bar for a quick beer and a chat in fact 16 00:01:04,470 --> 00:01:01,989 coming up on the skeptics zone this week 17 00:01:07,020 --> 00:01:04,480 to kick off the show i chat to andrew 18 00:01:09,810 --> 00:01:07,030 gould from the canberra skeptics and my 19 00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:09,820 good friend amanda devout we chat about 20 00:01:14,130 --> 00:01:12,340 the upcoming convention Australian 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:14,140 skeptics convention which will be held 22 00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:17,050 in Canberra in november this year also 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:19,510 we talk about the upcoming Tam the 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:22,210 amazing meeting in Las Vegas we discover 25 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:24,810 that Andrew used to read tarot cards and 26 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:27,640 we hear about a new podcast coming up 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:29,350 that's all in the first part of the show 28 00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:31,570 following that it's a week in science 29 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:32,920 with our good friends from the Royal 30 00:01:39,870 --> 00:01:36,460 Institution of Australia w WR I a u.s. 31 00:01:41,970 --> 00:01:39,880 org got a you and to round off the show 32 00:01:44,220 --> 00:01:41,980 it's the think-tank the girl think tank 33 00:01:45,930 --> 00:01:44,230 back at our favorite club down the end 34 00:01:49,290 --> 00:01:45,940 of the streets bus announcements and 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:49,300 everything I'm joined by dr. Richie Joe 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:52,450 Benna mu and a run to give but there's 37 00:01:55,530 --> 00:01:54,130 not much more to say really I think 38 00:01:57,690 --> 00:01:55,540 we'll get stuck straight into the show 39 00:01:59,280 --> 00:01:57,700 well before we do something I haven't 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:01:59,290 done for a while on the skeptic zone 41 00:02:05,010 --> 00:02:02,170 I've got my handy M gamers dice here 42 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:05,020 twenty sided a d20 I'm going to roll it 43 00:02:11,369 --> 00:02:09,910 now and has use your psychic powers who 44 00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:11,379 can predict what the number will be are 45 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:12,670 you ready think of a number now it's 46 00:02:17,150 --> 00:02:14,830 either going to be one two three four 47 00:02:20,930 --> 00:02:17,160 five all the way up to 20 are you ready 48 00:02:23,729 --> 00:02:20,940 have you got your number here we go 49 00:02:29,610 --> 00:02:23,739 don't fell off the table mm-hmm here we 50 00:02:31,380 --> 00:02:29,620 go again 11 congratulations to all those 51 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:31,390 people who got 11 52 00:02:34,980 --> 00:02:33,910 one more roll at the end of the show but 53 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:34,990 enough silliness I'm going to run 54 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:37,090 downstairs have some lovely peanuts in 55 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:39,250 the shell just the way I like them while 56 00:03:01,380 --> 00:02:41,260 I'm doing that we can all enjoy the 57 00:03:07,510 --> 00:03:04,720 merely a nice quiet drink here and in 58 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:07,520 the kia melis kappa deke O'Malley's pub 59 00:03:12,610 --> 00:03:10,310 I've just given a talk to the Canberra 60 00:03:14,350 --> 00:03:12,620 skeptics and people who came along which 61 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:14,360 is really great i'm sitting here with 62 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:16,690 Andrew Andrew you've got some 63 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:19,310 interesting information for the skeptics 64 00:03:24,340 --> 00:03:21,410 and listeners about the upcoming 65 00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:24,350 convention the National skeptics 66 00:03:28,420 --> 00:03:25,670 convention is going to be held in 67 00:03:31,780 --> 00:03:28,430 Canberra this year from the 22nd to the 68 00:03:32,890 --> 00:03:31,790 24th of November at the CSIRO discovery 69 00:03:35,020 --> 00:03:32,900 lecture theatre we're going to have 70 00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:35,030 fringe events going to have guest 71 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:36,980 speakers Richard you're going to be 72 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:39,920 presenting a talk Chris French is coming 73 00:03:44,260 --> 00:03:41,660 out from the universe from the comte's 74 00:03:47,770 --> 00:03:44,270 great anomalistic psychologist from 75 00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:47,780 there Gary Becker Craig Cormac Rachel 76 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:50,240 Dunlop Mike McCray Nick wey and Chrissy 77 00:03:55,330 --> 00:03:52,310 Wilson all sorts of people are coming 78 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:55,340 out Peter bowditch Tristan swale is the 79 00:03:59,410 --> 00:03:57,110 crop circle expert from the UK is going 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:03:59,420 to be skyping to us it's going to be 81 00:04:02,950 --> 00:04:01,370 great well Australian skeptics 82 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:02,960 conventions for and I speak from long 83 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:04,700 experience my first one was nineteen 84 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:08,810 ninety 90 points and I've been to just 85 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:11,030 about everyone since then I i love that 86 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:13,130 the conventions as such an informal 87 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:15,800 atmosphere and I well remember the last 88 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:20,090 one in canberra i think it was 2003 if 89 00:04:23,350 --> 00:04:21,530 i'm not mistaken that were that was 90 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:23,360 before I started getting into the 91 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:24,710 skeptical community you're only in 92 00:04:29,140 --> 00:04:26,780 kindergarten there and i'm sure i'm not 93 00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:29,150 there yeah thank you but no I'm not that 94 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:31,190 young and that that was I enjoy that one 95 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:34,090 very much and I always look forward to 96 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:36,290 skeptical conventions it apart from 97 00:04:40,090 --> 00:04:37,730 anything else it's a great way to meet 98 00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:40,100 other like-minded people isn't it it is 99 00:04:44,260 --> 00:04:42,440 yes that's what I've I've found most 100 00:04:46,750 --> 00:04:44,270 about going to go into these comedians I 101 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:46,760 went to a time in Las Vegas a few years 102 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:48,680 ago I went to remember I went to town 103 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:52,160 Australia in 2010 and and the thing that 104 00:04:58,540 --> 00:04:55,610 that I took away most from those little 105 00:05:00,280 --> 00:04:58,550 great talks there were great great 106 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:00,290 events that were being held but the 107 00:05:05,809 --> 00:05:03,240 thing I took away most was socializing 108 00:05:07,939 --> 00:05:05,819 with other skeptics having a drink in 109 00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:07,949 the delmar lounge or or at the at the 110 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:11,220 pub in Sydney and we're hoping to have 111 00:05:15,890 --> 00:05:14,430 as many fringe events as we can here 112 00:05:19,570 --> 00:05:15,900 we're thinking of doing British 113 00:05:23,570 --> 00:05:22,249 I'll be there it sounds too good to miss 114 00:05:26,689 --> 00:05:23,580 that's that's got to be great where 115 00:05:28,460 --> 00:05:26,699 we're doing CSIRO Discovery Center has 116 00:05:30,140 --> 00:05:28,470 this this regular event that they they 117 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:30,150 call discovery after dark where they 118 00:05:33,469 --> 00:05:32,190 have science demonstrations and and also 119 00:05:34,999 --> 00:05:33,479 thinks it's great fun we're going to 120 00:05:37,010 --> 00:05:35,009 take over one of those and we're going 121 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:37,020 to have skeptical presentations and 122 00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:38,849 people doing stuff it's going to be 123 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:40,560 fantastic there's going to be great 124 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:42,960 people great information and we hope 125 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:44,970 everybody can come and the theme this 126 00:05:50,629 --> 00:05:48,210 series conspiracy conspiracy theories 127 00:05:53,089 --> 00:05:50,639 because because it's the what the 50th 128 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:53,099 50th anniversary of the assassination of 129 00:05:57,860 --> 00:05:55,770 John F Kennedy the first and greatest 130 00:06:01,249 --> 00:05:57,870 well known successful false flag event 131 00:06:03,260 --> 00:06:01,259 in US history where the CIA assassinated 132 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:03,270 John F Kennedy and then tried and tried 133 00:06:11,899 --> 00:06:08,490 to cover it up we're we're we're 134 00:06:14,629 --> 00:06:11,909 inviting I thought it was the KGB I've 135 00:06:16,189 --> 00:06:14,639 been wrong all these years well you 136 00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:16,199 never know I proved to me that it wasn't 137 00:06:22,129 --> 00:06:20,400 ah I mean we're inviting alien 138 00:06:26,180 --> 00:06:22,139 ambassadors near Chinese submarine 139 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:26,190 captain well that's a reference to 140 00:06:29,330 --> 00:06:27,780 another conspiracy theory that some of 141 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:29,340 our international audience may not be 142 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:31,770 where we had a prime minister of 143 00:06:37,879 --> 00:06:35,250 australia who disappeared he went he 144 00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:37,889 went swimming as was his want and 145 00:06:46,070 --> 00:06:41,880 vanished late sixties wasn't 19 this 146 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:46,080 could be something 67 68 Sarah I told ya 147 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:49,020 harold holt and and he disappeared off 148 00:06:53,719 --> 00:06:51,409 off the new south wales coast and 149 00:06:55,550 --> 00:06:53,729 victorian coast victoria sorry my 150 00:06:59,300 --> 00:06:55,560 mistake a long time ago it was a long 151 00:07:01,300 --> 00:06:59,310 time ago and yeah everybody said that he 152 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:01,310 was picked up by a chinese submarine 153 00:07:05,689 --> 00:07:03,810 well you know what maps know everybody 154 00:07:07,159 --> 00:07:05,699 didn't say that but some people said 155 00:07:10,339 --> 00:07:07,169 that he was picked up lunch of course 156 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:10,349 the the the official story was and it's 157 00:07:15,999 --> 00:07:13,409 obviously a rouge did he drowned yeah i 158 00:07:19,299 --> 00:07:16,009 mean i believe that it was 159 00:07:22,170 --> 00:07:19,309 possibly he was a strong swimmer it he 160 00:07:26,139 --> 00:07:22,180 knew the waters how old was he young 161 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:26,149 Muslim 60 soon but he was a strong 162 00:07:30,219 --> 00:07:27,710 swimmer he couldn't possibly drowned 163 00:07:35,499 --> 00:07:30,229 what is strong swimmer he swam to the 164 00:07:37,929 --> 00:07:35,509 submarine exactly where JFK was dead a 165 00:07:40,059 --> 00:07:37,939 medium but JFK was undoubtedly dead no 166 00:07:41,939 --> 00:07:40,069 no no JFK was definitely shot but he was 167 00:07:44,170 --> 00:07:41,949 shot by the CIA on the grassy knoll 168 00:07:46,149 --> 00:07:44,180 because I mean there were obviously two 169 00:07:48,189 --> 00:07:46,159 bullets they couldn't they couldn't 170 00:07:50,889 --> 00:07:48,199 possibly have been one one bullet the 171 00:07:53,499 --> 00:07:50,899 Book Depository didn't have the right 172 00:07:56,170 --> 00:07:53,509 trajectory to go through the body as as 173 00:07:57,489 --> 00:07:56,180 as the the reports found there's a room 174 00:08:00,730 --> 00:07:57,499 full of people agreeing with you I'm 175 00:08:02,439 --> 00:08:00,740 worried nice well I'm just rattling I'm 176 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:02,449 just asking questions I mean prove me 177 00:08:07,570 --> 00:08:06,050 wrong this is the sort of thing folks 178 00:08:09,369 --> 00:08:07,580 you can expect to get when you come to 179 00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:09,379 camera in November for the Australian 180 00:08:13,809 --> 00:08:11,360 skeptics National Convention what's the 181 00:08:16,779 --> 00:08:13,819 website we should run to the website is 182 00:08:18,939 --> 00:08:16,789 national skeptics convention org that's 183 00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:18,949 all one word skeptics spelt with a k and 184 00:08:25,949 --> 00:08:21,649 what i could raise our URL wow how did 185 00:08:28,929 --> 00:08:25,959 you get that um quite easily we also 186 00:08:32,050 --> 00:08:28,939 have the Canberra skeptics on facebook 187 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:32,060 but anyway anything any information that 188 00:08:35,860 --> 00:08:34,190 we that that we have on the National 189 00:08:37,569 --> 00:08:35,870 skeptics convention goes on to that 190 00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:37,579 national skeptics invention or website 191 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:39,919 it also auto posts to both our facebook 192 00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:41,240 group and our twitter feed now we must 193 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:43,310 stress that this year seats are limited 194 00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:45,529 and I'm not and I'm not kidding normally 195 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:47,000 you say I'll quit getting quick seats 196 00:08:50,620 --> 00:08:48,529 are limited but in this case they really 197 00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:50,630 are seats very definitely are very 198 00:08:54,189 --> 00:08:51,500 limited it's going to be a very 199 00:08:56,650 --> 00:08:54,199 exclusive event I can't wait I love 200 00:08:57,759 --> 00:08:56,660 doing the skeptical conventions for me 201 00:08:59,889 --> 00:08:57,769 it's like recharging my batteries 202 00:09:01,569 --> 00:08:59,899 meeting people having a good time and 203 00:09:03,819 --> 00:09:01,579 learning I always learn something 204 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:03,829 skeptics conventions wherever I go and 205 00:09:09,069 --> 00:09:07,010 somebody who will be at the next amazing 206 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:09,079 meeting in Las Vegas is Amanda hello 207 00:09:15,670 --> 00:09:12,740 Amanda hi there your first time coming 208 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:15,680 up my first time I'm very excited what 209 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:16,910 do you expect I mean what have you heard 210 00:09:22,180 --> 00:09:19,470 about Tam in Las Vegas um 211 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:22,190 serve good company and good beer mainly 212 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:25,490 you've got your priorities right I see 213 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:28,590 great workshops by a lot of really great 214 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:30,330 people who aren't respected admired from 215 00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:32,790 afar for many years and I'm catching up 216 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:34,920 with people that I have talked to for a 217 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:37,350 long time yeah you're absolutely right 218 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:38,820 because you make all these friends on 219 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:40,790 social media over the years especially 220 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:43,170 in skeptical circles when you go to 221 00:09:46,610 --> 00:09:44,520 somewhere like the amazing meeting in 222 00:09:48,290 --> 00:09:46,620 Las Vegas suddenly you're sitting at a 223 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:48,300 table with them having a drink it's it's 224 00:09:52,220 --> 00:09:50,910 really great it is great and it I think 225 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:52,230 I've mentioned it before it feels like 226 00:09:55,130 --> 00:09:53,910 you know you've known them they're close 227 00:09:56,990 --> 00:09:55,140 friends even though you haven't really 228 00:09:59,060 --> 00:09:57,000 seen each other yeah but you finally get 229 00:10:00,830 --> 00:09:59,070 a chance to get together and and it 230 00:10:02,540 --> 00:10:00,840 always the talk always goes a bit weird 231 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:02,550 and goes a bit skeptical so it's all 232 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:05,370 good but to be honest um yeah I'm not 233 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:07,050 entirely sure what to expect but I'm 234 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:09,330 very excited it's hard to explain the 235 00:10:12,530 --> 00:10:10,650 amazing meeting to somebody who hasn't 236 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:12,540 been there partly because of the venue 237 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:14,250 because the venue is the south point 238 00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:17,100 casino which is like a little city it's 239 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:19,200 a giant building which never ends with 240 00:10:23,300 --> 00:10:21,090 restaurants everywhere in fact people go 241 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:23,310 into town on the Monday or Tuesday 242 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:25,290 before and they don't leave for a week 243 00:10:30,830 --> 00:10:28,770 yes I've seen that and also air 244 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:30,840 condition which i think is is going to 245 00:10:35,210 --> 00:10:32,730 be very handy for that time of the year 246 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:35,220 but um yeah I've done some research on 247 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:37,110 the hotel itself and and I'm very 248 00:10:41,660 --> 00:10:38,910 excited so yeah we'll see what happens 249 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:41,670 it's great fun well I meant I can't wait 250 00:10:45,740 --> 00:10:43,170 to see you at the amazing meeting I'll 251 00:10:47,570 --> 00:10:45,750 certainly give you the big tour because 252 00:10:49,310 --> 00:10:47,580 the south point is is quite a big 253 00:10:50,810 --> 00:10:49,320 building and there are funny restaurants 254 00:10:52,940 --> 00:10:50,820 hidden here and there and there are lots 255 00:10:54,140 --> 00:10:52,950 of lounges and all sorts of things going 256 00:10:56,210 --> 00:10:54,150 on but I think you'll really enjoy it 257 00:10:58,130 --> 00:10:56,220 and there's a giant statue of a man on a 258 00:11:01,700 --> 00:10:58,140 horse well you can't ask for more than 259 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:01,710 that can you you can't ask me I'm 260 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:03,150 looking forward to it thank you Richard 261 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:04,770 now something's very interesting that 262 00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:07,170 you used to be in fact a tarot card 263 00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:09,660 reader yeah I never took money for it I 264 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:11,880 want to say that right up front oh we're 265 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:14,910 all relieved it's okay but but yes I 266 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:16,770 went through I went through an 267 00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:19,110 evangelical Christian phase and then I 268 00:11:25,970 --> 00:11:22,440 left that and went through a neo-pagan 269 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:25,980 phase I'll we've all been there I I 270 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:28,740 think so but but during my neo fat pagan 271 00:11:33,139 --> 00:11:30,870 phase I I used to read tarot cards I 272 00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:33,149 used to read runes I used to do 273 00:11:38,699 --> 00:11:36,790 ritual spells all sorts of things the 274 00:11:42,269 --> 00:11:38,709 the interesting thing about tarot cards 275 00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,279 and why I continue to to you know keep 276 00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:45,279 my hand in a little it as it were is 277 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:49,360 that on the tarot cards each card has a 278 00:11:55,079 --> 00:11:51,850 picture on it which describe which shows 279 00:11:57,180 --> 00:11:55,089 a scene so you can like people on 280 00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,190 horseback or people people people 281 00:12:01,800 --> 00:11:59,680 carrying swords people getting chests 282 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:01,810 full of money things like this so you 283 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:03,790 can take a whole lot of these cards line 284 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:08,050 them up and they tell a story and once 285 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:10,690 you once you once you line them up and 286 00:12:15,019 --> 00:12:12,850 you start telling that story to the 287 00:12:17,819 --> 00:12:15,029 person you're reading too they 288 00:12:19,319 --> 00:12:17,829 undoubtedly will then start to relate 289 00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:19,329 elements in that story to their own 290 00:12:26,610 --> 00:12:24,040 lives so you have you have a scene with 291 00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:26,620 a mother figure and then you have a 292 00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:30,430 scene with I don't know running water I 293 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:32,260 was used the man you say a street yes 294 00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:34,690 dream yeah yeah yeah that's very good 295 00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:37,360 Richard yeah yeah I see it's all true 296 00:12:42,689 --> 00:12:40,870 yeah the term that you use mother figure 297 00:12:44,189 --> 00:12:42,699 and this is something they have been 298 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:44,199 readers use all the time they'll say a 299 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:45,970 mother figure or a father figure that's 300 00:12:49,439 --> 00:12:48,010 right it means anything exactly a mother 301 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:49,449 figure could be a mother it could be a 302 00:12:53,970 --> 00:12:51,610 grandmother a teacher and it could be a 303 00:12:56,519 --> 00:12:53,980 teacher it could be just about anyone 304 00:12:58,379 --> 00:12:56,529 but the point is that the the the tarot 305 00:13:00,300 --> 00:12:58,389 cards and this is what makes it so 306 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:00,310 fascinating to me the tarot cards just 307 00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:03,730 have this basic symbolism or drawn on 308 00:13:09,059 --> 00:13:07,180 there it's almost like a prompt it is it 309 00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:09,069 that's exactly what it is it's a prompt 310 00:13:14,939 --> 00:13:12,670 it's a prime and it's something that the 311 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:14,949 querent which is the jargon word for the 312 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:18,010 people receiving the reading it's 313 00:13:21,629 --> 00:13:19,600 something that the querent can can 314 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:21,639 relate to something in their own lives 315 00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:24,850 or parts of it or pass something yeah 316 00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:27,100 yeah yeah so you were talking in your 317 00:13:31,139 --> 00:13:29,560 talk today about cold reading and most 318 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:31,149 of most of your listeners will know at 319 00:13:37,889 --> 00:13:33,870 least something about cold reading the 320 00:13:40,199 --> 00:13:37,899 Tarot is a shortcut if you like to cold 321 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:40,209 reading because you can say here's the 322 00:13:45,389 --> 00:13:43,480 nine of swords this is a person carrying 323 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:45,399 nine swords he's obviously overreacting 324 00:13:49,410 --> 00:13:46,690 to some kind of 325 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:49,420 kind of fresh is good and and they say 326 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:52,780 oh my god i'm having trouble at work my 327 00:13:59,040 --> 00:13:55,090 boss seems out to get me with nine 328 00:14:02,270 --> 00:13:59,050 swords with nine it's easy it makes it 329 00:14:05,070 --> 00:14:02,280 so so easy to get into somebody's 330 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,080 psychology and I think about the four of 331 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:07,600 cups four of cups oh I've got to have to 332 00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:09,610 remember now out of memory the four of 333 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:13,620 cups is one cup full free Cup's empty 334 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:16,030 which means you've lost a lot but you 335 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:19,810 still retain some see it's so so easy to 336 00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:22,930 to relate these scenes on the on the 337 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:26,860 cards to two aspects of one's own life 338 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:29,530 and that's why tarot card readers in 339 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:32,530 particular I think are able to to 340 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:35,130 convince people that they have these 341 00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:39,820 powers to to describe things that I 342 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:42,310 never told you that that I had lost all 343 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:44,110 of this and I never told you that I 344 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:45,610 never told you that my house was robbed 345 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:47,980 but I kept my mother's locket yes Bryce 346 00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:50,080 yeah yeah question for you though Andrew 347 00:14:53,820 --> 00:14:51,910 during this time we did this did you 348 00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:53,830 believe that you were able to do this so 349 00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:55,950 we did you know that it was all bunk 350 00:15:04,950 --> 00:14:58,690 that's a very good question and I'm not 351 00:15:09,570 --> 00:15:04,960 sure that has a yes or no answer I am I 352 00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:09,580 think that at the time I felt that the 353 00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:12,790 cards were tapping into something I 354 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:15,360 didn't know what it was I didn't know 355 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:19,720 whether it was about whether i was able 356 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:21,670 to read somebody's mind or whether i was 357 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:24,850 able to to ask spirits for their advice 358 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:27,130 or i don't i don't quite know and I 359 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:28,930 don't think I really knew then or I I 360 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:31,650 know that I knew then that it worked I 361 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:34,810 didn't know why it worked it's only much 362 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:36,370 much later when I started learning about 363 00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:38,230 cold reading and things like that that I 364 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:41,200 finally figured out why I think you 365 00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:43,570 would you would do a really good live 366 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:46,600 demonstration for an audience you have 367 00:15:51,810 --> 00:15:48,190 somebody come up you'd have the table 368 00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:51,820 would have a camera on the cards I think 369 00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:53,230 that would be great I think you should 370 00:15:56,070 --> 00:15:54,339 something you could shoot should 371 00:15:58,329 --> 00:15:56,080 consider that's that's a very 372 00:16:00,610 --> 00:15:58,339 interesting idea 373 00:16:03,850 --> 00:16:00,620 I'm really putting it putting him on the 374 00:16:05,949 --> 00:16:03,860 spot I'm starting a new podcast my 375 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:05,959 co-host from rational capital Mike and I 376 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:08,420 are about to start a new podcast and we 377 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:10,790 want input from people the podcast is 378 00:16:20,379 --> 00:16:16,370 called explained that oh and we aim to 379 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:20,389 to seek national and natural and 380 00:16:24,249 --> 00:16:22,220 rational explanations for apparently 381 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:24,259 paranormal phenomena I like the sound 382 00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:25,910 when you're going to keep this month I 383 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:26,959 don't know when we're going to kick this 384 00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:28,790 off yet we're in wilderness 385 00:16:32,199 --> 00:16:30,589 landing-stage let us know the skip 386 00:16:34,689 --> 00:16:32,209 examine we'll give it a good plug we 387 00:16:37,989 --> 00:16:34,699 will yes what I'm asking for at the 388 00:16:40,179 --> 00:16:37,999 moment is that if anybody has had some 389 00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,189 kind of experience that could be 390 00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:41,839 described as a paranormal experience 391 00:16:48,309 --> 00:16:45,769 maybe maybe a haunting or or a abduction 392 00:16:50,170 --> 00:16:48,319 or happen to me it happened to me when I 393 00:16:53,650 --> 00:16:50,180 walked into this room this class was 394 00:16:58,869 --> 00:16:53,660 full look at it now how do you explain 395 00:17:01,360 --> 00:16:58,879 that that that is is rather easy to 396 00:17:03,699 --> 00:17:01,370 explain it but but but what I'm looking 397 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:03,709 for is is people to send me their 398 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:06,890 stories right yeah interesting or 399 00:17:10,269 --> 00:17:08,510 stranger events that much because 400 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:10,279 everyone knows that these strange events 401 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:13,970 happen we all know that that weird 402 00:17:19,059 --> 00:17:17,510 things happen and we all we're all in 403 00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:19,069 this room I think believe that all of 404 00:17:22,149 --> 00:17:20,839 these things have natural explanations 405 00:17:23,889 --> 00:17:22,159 even if we don't know what those natural 406 00:17:25,899 --> 00:17:23,899 explanations how can people get you this 407 00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:25,909 information I've we've got an email 408 00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:27,919 address set up we're only preliminary at 409 00:17:33,159 --> 00:17:30,380 the moment but we have an email address 410 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,169 which is explained that at mail com f 411 00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,600 mail book at mail com easy to remember 412 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:38,240 nice and easy to remember so if you send 413 00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:40,940 an email into that mail address we'll 414 00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:42,980 have a look at it and so you want people 415 00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:45,080 to send in this spooky experience uzuki 416 00:17:50,019 --> 00:17:48,799 experiences UFO sightings were dealing 417 00:17:51,399 --> 00:17:50,029 with the tagline well how do you explain 418 00:17:53,889 --> 00:17:51,409 that that's what they're pretty much 419 00:17:55,980 --> 00:17:53,899 very much because what we're after as i 420 00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:55,990 said is is looking for those natural 421 00:18:02,350 --> 00:17:58,880 explanations behind these apparently 422 00:18:03,820 --> 00:18:02,360 paranormal phenomenon i'm feeling i'll 423 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:03,830 have a spooky experience in about six 424 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:05,650 weeks i'll get back to you 425 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:10,060 Oh intended and to everybody in the room 426 00:18:14,610 --> 00:18:12,940 look I just come off literally come off 427 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:14,620 the stage giving you talk to you all and 428 00:18:29,940 --> 00:18:15,910 I want to thank you all for coming along 429 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:29,950 so cheers have you heard the one about 430 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,810 how the Illuminati in conjunction with 431 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:33,280 the US government are hiding the 432 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:35,140 existence of aliens in order to ensure 433 00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:36,490 the supply of helium is kept low 434 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:38,560 although the CIA the militant wing of 435 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:40,030 the Freemasons are working with the 436 00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,740 elders of zion to take control of the 437 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:42,880 population of the world through 438 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:45,370 fluoridated chemtrails canberra skeptics 439 00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:46,990 incorporated on behalf of the shadow 440 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:48,550 government will be massing an array of 441 00:18:53,010 --> 00:18:50,410 dark forces for the australian skeptics 442 00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,020 national convention 2013 this convention 443 00:18:57,180 --> 00:18:55,120 has conspired to coincide with the 50th 444 00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:57,190 anniversary of the assassination of John 445 00:19:01,200 --> 00:18:58,690 F Kennedy possibly the most famous 446 00:19:02,550 --> 00:19:01,210 conspiracy theory of all time if you've 447 00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:02,560 ever wanted to learn about the truth 448 00:19:06,330 --> 00:19:04,720 behind the death of JFK what makes for a 449 00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:06,340 good conspiracy theory and why they are 450 00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:08,350 so prevalent Canberra skeptics invites 451 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:10,540 you to attend that is of course should 452 00:19:15,150 --> 00:19:12,850 you choose to accept it come to national 453 00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:15,160 skeptics convention org and just 454 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:25,330 welcome to a week in science from our 455 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:29,090 iOS this week brain versus body a new 456 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:40,700 vaccine and music evolution first up two 457 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:42,230 studies that show the power of our 458 00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:44,870 brains over our bodies in the first 459 00:19:48,490 --> 00:19:46,640 study participants were given the 460 00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:48,500 illusion that their real body had been 461 00:19:53,050 --> 00:19:50,990 replaced by a virtual one the more 462 00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:53,060 realistic the simulation the less 463 00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:54,920 sensitive they became to temperature 464 00:19:59,380 --> 00:19:57,740 changes on their actual skin indicating 465 00:20:01,840 --> 00:19:59,390 they were melding with their virtual 466 00:20:03,490 --> 00:20:01,850 self in the second study dutch 467 00:20:06,370 --> 00:20:03,500 researchers have shown that people with 468 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:06,380 anorexia unconsciously move like they 469 00:20:10,570 --> 00:20:08,930 have a larger body size turning their 470 00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:10,580 shoulders as they move through doorways 471 00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:15,200 even when there is plenty of space a new 472 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:17,150 vaccine has been trialed for one of the 473 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:18,890 viruses that cause hand foot and mouth 474 00:20:24,850 --> 00:20:21,050 disease hand foot and mouth disease 475 00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,860 caused by the ev71 virus has resulted in 476 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:26,720 two thousand deaths worldwide in the 477 00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:29,210 past decade with the last Australian 478 00:20:35,170 --> 00:20:32,750 death in 1999 the vaccine trial involved 479 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:35,180 children in china and reduced the number 480 00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:37,190 and severity of cases caused by this 481 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:39,740 virus however while it's a great step 482 00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,810 forward the researchers warn that the 483 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:43,760 vaccine doesn't protect against other 484 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:46,610 viruses that cause the disease and so 485 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:48,710 may not drastically reduce the total 486 00:21:00,050 --> 00:20:57,290 researchers spend 550 working years 487 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:00,060 writing grants costing 66 million 488 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:02,850 dollars annually with only a 25 percent 489 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:05,490 success rate people with high IQs are 490 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:07,370 better at churning out distractions 491 00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:09,510 helping them to concentrate in an 492 00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,300 information saturated world a single 493 00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:14,400 change in a pigment gene can turn a 494 00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:18,900 tiger from orange to white and a 158 495 00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:21,000 million year old bird like dinosaur 496 00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:23,100 complete with feathers has helped 497 00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:25,500 clarify how dinosaurs evolved into birds 498 00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:30,240 and finally do you think all of today's 499 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:32,190 music sounds the same a detailed 500 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:34,770 analysis of western music spanning from 501 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:37,860 1730 to nineteen thirty has shown that 502 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:40,290 music really does evolve through time 503 00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:42,750 the patterns found in the melody studied 504 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:45,150 strongly related to the time period from 505 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:47,370 which the music came this could help us 506 00:21:52,670 --> 00:21:49,410 understand how our brains are wired to 507 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,680 perceive music and our tendency to enjoy 508 00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:54,480 melodies that fit a familiar and 509 00:22:00,980 --> 00:21:59,010 predictable style arias recently 510 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:00,990 commissioned a new play the clock 511 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:04,050 dealing with aging tune in online next 512 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:06,120 week for a special panel discussion 513 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:08,100 about the science of aging and the 514 00:22:12,050 --> 00:22:10,050 challenges of translating this tricky 515 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:12,060 topic into theater live streaming 516 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:14,370 details can be found on our website and 517 00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:16,290 that's been the highlight of another big 518 00:22:21,140 --> 00:22:18,630 week in science for more information in 519 00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:21,150 science news jump onto the Arias website 520 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,960 at our iOS org dot a you where you can 521 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,120 also sign up for notifications of future 522 00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:30,000 episodes don't forget follow a week in 523 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:31,680 science on twitter using the hashtag 524 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:34,950 week in sigh i'm tani Amaya and on 525 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:37,050 behalf of the Arias chain see you next 526 00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:48,410 hi this is Tim Farley you probably know 527 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,000 me from what's the harm net a catalog of 528 00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:53,760 the real world harm caused by lack of 529 00:22:59,240 --> 00:22:56,070 critical thinking but that's not my only 530 00:23:02,150 --> 00:22:59,250 project i present at skeptic events I 531 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:02,160 post a daily skeptic history fact on 532 00:23:06,860 --> 00:23:04,410 Twitter and Facebook and I blog about 533 00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:06,870 using new techniques on the internet to 534 00:23:13,550 --> 00:23:10,080 advance skepticism come over to skip 535 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:13,560 tools com and check out my latest ideas 536 00:23:19,749 --> 00:23:16,650 but first enjoy the rest of the skeptic 537 00:23:30,379 --> 00:23:23,119 join us now for drinking skeptically in 538 00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:30,389 the think tank waited when my people are 539 00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:32,070 being forced against their will to place 540 00:23:36,019 --> 00:23:33,960 their children at risk it is the role as 541 00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:36,029 every righteous man or woman to stand up 542 00:23:43,729 --> 00:23:42,360 and say never again really what about 543 00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:43,739 that my people go shouldn't use that 544 00:23:47,749 --> 00:23:45,720 word she uses that one about space they 545 00:23:49,999 --> 00:23:47,759 came for the things in the K and I did 546 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:50,009 you have things you have told with the 547 00:23:57,109 --> 00:23:54,320 distinct smell of Godwin in the air yes 548 00:23:59,810 --> 00:23:57,119 logical fallacy I welcome you all to 549 00:24:01,399 --> 00:23:59,820 think tank welcomer ants again thank you 550 00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,409 Richard how are you doing I'm doing very 551 00:24:05,989 --> 00:24:03,840 well he's one of the people and one of 552 00:24:08,779 --> 00:24:05,999 the people is another one of the people 553 00:24:14,749 --> 00:24:08,789 is joined by mu hello pirated looking 554 00:24:17,239 --> 00:24:14,759 lovely of your swirly top there I know 555 00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:17,249 that one of our people I'm not one of 556 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:18,720 the people but you weren't about people 557 00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,970 dr. AG no I don't know you can knowledge 558 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:22,320 like one of the people that she's not 559 00:24:28,639 --> 00:24:26,129 chosen like us well you're all choice us 560 00:24:30,739 --> 00:24:28,649 in merrill we're all chosen to be here 561 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:30,749 tonight cheers everybody good to see you 562 00:24:39,499 --> 00:24:37,049 back to the think tank mmm oh that's 563 00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:39,509 good thank you um Joey I'd better move 564 00:24:45,249 --> 00:24:42,539 for bringing along the lollies I am the 565 00:24:48,229 --> 00:24:45,259 official provider what do we have here 566 00:24:51,349 --> 00:24:48,239 Salazar found her rooms the natural 567 00:24:53,659 --> 00:24:51,359 convection company sour squirms which 568 00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:53,669 are like sour were meetings and fantails 569 00:24:58,159 --> 00:24:55,769 the good old australian classic club 570 00:25:01,729 --> 00:24:58,169 fantails do seem to talking though 571 00:25:03,019 --> 00:25:01,739 fantails are no but you know you won't 572 00:25:06,289 --> 00:25:03,029 be hearing from me for the next few 573 00:25:09,349 --> 00:25:06,299 minutes they're very chewy indignities 574 00:25:10,879 --> 00:25:09,359 are not conducive to conversation well 575 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:10,889 it's been a little while since we've 576 00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:12,809 been together in the think tank and what 577 00:25:17,509 --> 00:25:15,200 an interesting time it has been lately 578 00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:17,519 well that's hot I mean it's the tip of 579 00:25:21,499 --> 00:25:18,840 the iceberg just to say it's interesting 580 00:25:24,639 --> 00:25:21,509 dr. age here I've never seen a couple of 581 00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:24,649 weeks like we've had with the concerted 582 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:28,100 effort in the news media especially 583 00:25:32,010 --> 00:25:30,010 against the loons of 584 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:32,020 the Australian vaccination network I 585 00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:33,490 mean I honestly I've just never seen 586 00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:34,990 anything like it well today they were 587 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:37,270 called zealots they look vaccines Ella's 588 00:25:41,550 --> 00:25:40,120 mmm when you know it's I was saying to 589 00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:41,560 you before we started recording tonight 590 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:43,870 that I'm so engrossed in this stuff now 591 00:25:49,050 --> 00:25:46,840 that sometimes I just it sort of washes 592 00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:49,060 over me and I forget and I don't notice 593 00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:52,390 how bad things are because yeah for them 594 00:25:57,090 --> 00:25:55,600 but also nothing they do is surprises me 595 00:25:59,490 --> 00:25:57,100 anymore you'll see it all the time I 596 00:26:01,530 --> 00:25:59,500 agree yes so it's nice to get a reality 597 00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:01,540 check from other people who haven't come 598 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:03,100 across this stuff before and I didn't 599 00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:05,650 interview on monday for ABC radio where 600 00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:07,180 we were discussing the myths of 601 00:26:13,290 --> 00:26:10,230 vaccinations and the project the 602 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:13,300 presenter was asking me about how much I 603 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:15,490 get harassed because of what I say 604 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:18,370 publicly about vaccines and I related to 605 00:26:22,590 --> 00:26:20,050 her the story of training mccaffrey and 606 00:26:25,260 --> 00:26:22,600 David McCaffrey and she was gobsmacked 607 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:25,270 yeah and she didn't know what to say and 608 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:26,890 she couldn't believe that that sort of 609 00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:29,890 stuff happens and you know on Sunday we 610 00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:32,830 had front-page headlines and the front 611 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:34,390 page of the newspaper was training 612 00:26:39,330 --> 00:26:35,650 McCaffrey and you talked about that last 613 00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:39,340 week a little bit and then Merrill wrote 614 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:41,380 a blog on Monday saying I'm being 615 00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:43,870 attacked on the internet because Xolos 616 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:47,590 said bad things about me is I know you 617 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:49,960 did these things it was written up in 618 00:26:56,370 --> 00:26:54,490 the papers and she's getting bollixed by 619 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:56,380 a lots of people who are writing the 620 00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,490 stew emails to her which I wouldn't 621 00:27:00,690 --> 00:26:59,440 condone but you know the thing is she 622 00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:00,700 did all this stuff and it's really 623 00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:03,990 really bad ya know we must stress 624 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:06,520 absolutely we do not condone people 625 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,890 writing nasty nasty things to Merrill 626 00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:10,720 Dori or anybody else that's not the way 627 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:13,180 we know what we simply do not condone 628 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:15,850 that it's you please people find a 629 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:17,860 better way to conduct yourselves out 630 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:22,090 there but on the other hand of course as 631 00:27:25,890 --> 00:27:24,010 Tony mcafee had said she has been on the 632 00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:25,900 receiving end of horrible emails from 633 00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:28,660 anti vaccinations at dillards yeah but I 634 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:31,030 mean I guess it's saddles sort of 635 00:27:35,070 --> 00:27:32,650 sometimes hard to reflect on this stuff 636 00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:35,080 and and because it's happening so 637 00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:36,280 quickly 638 00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:38,110 you also don't get a lot of time to 639 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:40,240 celebrate the wins that you get because 640 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:41,710 by the time something's happened and 641 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:43,390 then something else happens you know I 642 00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:47,440 mean yeah so on friday the amendments to 643 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:49,240 the Public Health Act came through 644 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:52,210 that's the new so close Paula yes so 645 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:54,370 that is now at law in in in New South 646 00:27:59,520 --> 00:27:57,010 Wales and just to reiterate that means 647 00:28:02,040 --> 00:27:59,530 that the health care Complaints 648 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:02,050 Commission can now instigate complaints 649 00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:04,570 about health care providers or educators 650 00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:07,780 of their own fruition they don't have to 651 00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:09,310 wait for other people to complain you 652 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:11,920 have anything with their agenda we'll 653 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:15,070 get to that in a moment around and also 654 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:17,110 importantly it used to be you can only 655 00:28:21,930 --> 00:28:18,730 make a complaint if you'd personally 656 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:21,940 been affected whereas it's a bit the 657 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:24,730 legislation now says that if you feel a 658 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:27,490 health care provider is likely to cause 659 00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:29,710 harm you can register a complaint which 660 00:28:33,630 --> 00:28:31,660 is really fantastic because in the age 661 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:33,640 of the Internet there's stuff all over 662 00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:35,650 the place that can potentially cause 663 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:37,150 harm by people just reading it they 664 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:38,050 don't have to actually go to a 665 00:28:43,050 --> 00:28:40,750 practitioner you know how they have they 666 00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:43,060 given names to laws in this country 667 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:45,280 there's a famous law called skies law 668 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:47,410 which is against hoon drivers bad 669 00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,510 drivers well you know some people are 670 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:51,840 suggesting and particularly the 671 00:28:55,290 --> 00:28:53,890 legislation now for childcare centers 672 00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:55,300 that it might be called dana's I was 673 00:28:59,730 --> 00:28:57,400 just gonna say are we are better even 674 00:29:02,220 --> 00:28:59,740 better yeah we take the irony or even 675 00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:02,230 they can't actually be to memorialize 676 00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:05,350 somebody who has I agree that sounds 677 00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:07,030 much better so that legislation came 678 00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:10,000 through Friday today was the third 679 00:29:16,620 --> 00:29:13,390 reading in Parliament of the amendment 680 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:16,630 to the anti-discrimination Act to allow 681 00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:19,210 childcare centers to discriminate 682 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:20,470 against children who aren't vaccinated 683 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:23,440 in addition to that the law will include 684 00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:25,570 if they do enroll unvaccinated children 685 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:27,780 they can be fined four thousand dollars 686 00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:30,100 but there's a small problem with this 687 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:32,620 legislation there is there isn't he I'm 688 00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:34,870 Jose you want to do you want to say what 689 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:37,660 that is let us pray 690 00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:41,390 so there's a rather large loophole in 691 00:29:46,330 --> 00:29:44,809 the legislation which basically there's 692 00:29:48,010 --> 00:29:46,340 there's two ways that you can get out of 693 00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:48,020 vaccinating one is if you have a 694 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:51,230 legitimate medical reason why you can't 695 00:29:55,330 --> 00:29:54,020 actually be vaccinated you know like you 696 00:29:57,940 --> 00:29:55,340 need a minute a minute yell it from the 697 00:30:03,640 --> 00:29:57,950 doctor saying that and the other way is 698 00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:03,650 a religious exemption so just go and 699 00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:06,020 make your own church and there you go 700 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:08,480 and that's exactly pretty much what 701 00:30:13,540 --> 00:30:11,330 they're doing so they've made their own 702 00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:13,550 choice well existing so well it is 703 00:30:17,950 --> 00:30:15,320 actually an existing church called the 704 00:30:20,110 --> 00:30:17,960 Church of conscious living which was 705 00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:20,120 created what around 2007 2008 706 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:22,940 deliberately to ya to get a commission 707 00:30:27,310 --> 00:30:24,710 this is Jack with this purpose to 708 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:27,320 basically provide valid conscientious 709 00:30:32,410 --> 00:30:29,270 objectors keep shooting themselves in 710 00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,420 the foot but rather conveniently her age 711 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:34,880 do you want to tolerance yeah I mean 712 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:36,650 like this one this is what i mean by the 713 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:37,850 fact that you don't get time to 714 00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:39,410 celebrate wins before something else 715 00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:43,790 happens and so this this was it 716 00:30:50,740 --> 00:30:47,929 yesterday was yesterday so yesterday was 717 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:50,750 the third reading of this potential 718 00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:52,550 legislation in parliament so at nine 719 00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,670 thirty in the morning the ABN posted i'm 720 00:31:00,160 --> 00:30:58,000 a post on their Facebook page saying 721 00:31:01,780 --> 00:31:00,170 everyone go off and join the church of 722 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:01,790 conscious living then we can all get a 723 00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:04,610 you know we can all get objection 724 00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:08,000 exemptions some meddling kids I don't 725 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:09,590 know who they are don't know who they're 726 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:12,110 they happen to screenshot that and 727 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:13,730 happen to send it to the relevant 728 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:15,530 ministers including the health minister 729 00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:17,570 the opposition health minister it must 730 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:20,150 have been the friends of scooby-doo the 731 00:31:24,460 --> 00:31:22,250 meddling kids right yeah and they saw 732 00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:24,470 this and I believe also that these 733 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:25,840 people followed up with phone calls 734 00:31:31,210 --> 00:31:29,210 after they were emailing this and so by 735 00:31:33,010 --> 00:31:31,220 five o'clock in the afternoon the Health 736 00:31:34,299 --> 00:31:33,020 Minister Julian Skinner announced that 737 00:31:35,980 --> 00:31:34,309 the healthcare Complaints Commission 738 00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:35,990 will be convincing commencing an 739 00:31:39,970 --> 00:31:37,790 investigation into the Australian 740 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:39,980 vaccination network for trying to 741 00:31:48,380 --> 00:31:47,030 you should see their faces my friends 742 00:31:50,419 --> 00:31:48,390 you should see their faces they're 743 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:50,429 sitting across from me Rachel's got a 744 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:52,290 glass of champagne and a hand Joe is 745 00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:54,450 eating a some candy and they're both 746 00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:56,960 just smirking your way how do you how 747 00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,490 brilliantly how much I can't even speak 748 00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:01,200 like if you're going to shoot yourself 749 00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:03,120 in the foot that's the way to do it you 750 00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:07,830 know what is a garage in five minutes 751 00:32:12,380 --> 00:32:10,380 time those wishes you to service make 752 00:32:16,510 --> 00:32:12,390 your way to the point out courtesy bus 753 00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:16,520 coming in five at its time thank you 754 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:18,630 yeah thank goodness for the bus 755 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:20,370 announcement yeah I remember something 756 00:32:24,770 --> 00:32:22,530 that you said Richard the probably about 757 00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:24,780 two or three years ago now you've said 758 00:32:29,690 --> 00:32:28,140 that Muriel's marrow only I excited 759 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:29,700 hopefully only opens their mouth to 760 00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:32,010 change yeah but that's exactly the way 761 00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:33,990 it is it's absolutely i mean it's 762 00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:37,919 astonishing her ability to cause harm to 763 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:40,380 her own organization to her own her own 764 00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:43,650 causes that's just punishing the things 765 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:45,240 that's really important though is you 766 00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:47,100 know four people have been aware of 767 00:32:50,419 --> 00:32:48,480 their presence for a long time and I 768 00:32:52,190 --> 00:32:50,429 think you know as we know the majority 769 00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:52,200 of the community do vaccinate you know 770 00:32:57,740 --> 00:32:54,960 we're not talking about yes nothing 771 00:33:00,110 --> 00:32:57,750 about yes 51% hotter for Iran about 772 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:00,120 ninety two percent yeah in well 773 00:33:06,909 --> 00:33:01,890 depending on the area and on their 774 00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:06,919 hectic life I have really anyhow so um 775 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:10,620 hang on trying to thought look too busy 776 00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:16,890 giggling I don't blame you so okay says 777 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:19,980 I'm saying the community really is not a 778 00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:24,210 fan of mural jewelry in the ABN but as 779 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:27,030 we know most people need a bit of a push 780 00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:29,610 to actually recognize something going on 781 00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:31,320 in the community that is potentially 782 00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,260 going to cause harm and and they need to 783 00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,480 be mobilised into action and I think 784 00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:37,679 that you know for a long time now 785 00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:39,750 there's been a relatively small group of 786 00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:42,150 people who've been who have recognized 787 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:43,620 this problem and I shouting to the 788 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:46,500 rooftops about it but i think that the 789 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:48,690 note the the the Telegraph the Daily 790 00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,850 Telegraph's some campaign the no job and 791 00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:52,480 no play campaign 792 00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:54,700 has really now mobilized that community 793 00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:56,470 and it's been an extraordinary campaign 794 00:34:02,190 --> 00:33:58,770 I mean I was quite funny actually I was 795 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:02,200 out for coffee when i said i think was 796 00:34:06,690 --> 00:34:04,690 yesterday and it was um you know you 797 00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:06,700 have sort of communal tables now in a 798 00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:08,260 lot of coffee shops and there was there 799 00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:09,369 were these people sitting next to me 800 00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,399 looking through the the Telegraph and 801 00:34:16,260 --> 00:34:14,800 the woman's head to the man oh they're 802 00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,270 going to be finding people for not 803 00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:18,879 vaccinating their children and and the 804 00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:21,580 man said all that's a bit extreme and of 805 00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:24,669 course couldn't help myself I leaner and 806 00:34:28,649 --> 00:34:26,440 I said look actually know that that's 807 00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,659 not how it's gonna work and I said you 808 00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:30,159 know this is actually what's going to be 809 00:34:34,349 --> 00:34:31,780 happening and better than that and they 810 00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:34,359 say that's very good and she looks over 811 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:35,950 at him and she said you vaccinate your 812 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:37,570 children so of course absolutely 813 00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:40,690 absolutely it's just good at these 814 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:42,070 conversations happening people are 815 00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:43,090 actually interested in it they're 816 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:45,100 talking about it and that's what we need 817 00:34:49,649 --> 00:34:47,730 and in the midst of all this with a 818 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:49,659 incredible campaign by The Daily 819 00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:51,850 Telegraph and the stories coming out for 820 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:54,700 what two weeks now over to I was like 821 00:34:59,640 --> 00:34:56,770 this is week four all rights been 822 00:35:00,840 --> 00:34:59,650 extraordinary we had Fairfax has picked 823 00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:00,850 it up now are there on the gravy train 824 00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:02,590 tree because I saw that the telegraph 825 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:04,030 was doing so well that they went on 826 00:35:08,099 --> 00:35:05,770 let's have a go so they published a few 827 00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:08,109 one of the Aces we have up our sleeve as 828 00:35:14,370 --> 00:35:11,680 always to use that clip from media watch 829 00:35:16,620 --> 00:35:14,380 where they they absolutely they rip into 830 00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:16,630 somebody by having because they have the 831 00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:18,460 the views of the anti-vaxxers so I 832 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:20,760 prefer using the clip from the project 833 00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:24,970 who's that I'm dr. Reggie but of course 834 00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:27,369 in the midst of all this just our last 835 00:35:31,950 --> 00:35:30,640 weekend we had jammed yes jab they just 836 00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:31,960 want you know speaking of the 837 00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:34,720 conversation jabbed one of the big 838 00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:37,150 messages from jab is that the important 839 00:35:43,140 --> 00:35:39,160 one of the biggest issue here is having 840 00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:43,150 the conversation that saying what was 841 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:44,380 the point that they made in there that 842 00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:46,810 that it's one thing to say that you're 843 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,030 fearful of vaccinating that shouldn't be 844 00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:51,040 the end of the conversation yeah that's 845 00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:52,500 the beginning that was a really 846 00:35:57,740 --> 00:35:54,630 marriage it was a it was a wonderful 847 00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:57,750 documentary now Rachel and I had a 848 00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,460 little sneak preview about a week before 849 00:36:03,890 --> 00:36:01,200 it went away or a week or two before we 850 00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:03,900 wear and I met Sonia Pemberton in the 851 00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:06,660 Czech Republic issues of this science 852 00:36:12,050 --> 00:36:09,660 film festival I was at I was very 853 00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:12,060 impressed when I saw it in our sneak 854 00:36:17,110 --> 00:36:14,220 peak dr AG and then when it aired again 855 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:17,120 i rewatched it and thought to myself 856 00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:19,290 thousands of people around Australia are 857 00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:21,030 watching this at the moment it was it 858 00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:22,470 was quite something one of the things I 859 00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:23,760 thought was I'm not going to give it 860 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:25,020 away because it will be released in the 861 00:36:29,870 --> 00:36:27,810 US later this year yeah a song on PBS I 862 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:29,880 I think yeah people want to hear that 863 00:36:36,670 --> 00:36:31,590 interview i did with sonya it was two 864 00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:36,680 weeks ago i think yeah yes anyway yeah 865 00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:38,760 there was something that she said during 866 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:40,140 that interview that i didn't really 867 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:42,330 register with me at the time but it has 868 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:45,090 subsequently because i expected that the 869 00:36:48,110 --> 00:36:46,710 anti-vaxxers would after I'd seen a 870 00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:48,120 preview I knew that their heads would 871 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:50,790 explode on Sunday I knew that they would 872 00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:53,250 explode because she covered vaccine 873 00:36:57,830 --> 00:36:55,140 reactions but she covered them in a very 874 00:37:00,740 --> 00:36:57,840 sensitive and nuanced way because 875 00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:00,750 they're extremely rare yeah so whilst 876 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:04,560 the autism was mentioned there wasn't 877 00:37:09,590 --> 00:37:07,290 certainly any cases of that cited in the 878 00:37:12,350 --> 00:37:09,600 documentary and what she did the site 879 00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:12,360 was very rare reactions and happened one 880 00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:14,550 of which was an epileptic tribe was it 881 00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,190 called syndrome forever the drivers in 882 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:19,440 drone which is extremely rare genetic 883 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:21,810 form of epilepsy which was triggered by 884 00:37:26,090 --> 00:37:23,730 the fever generated by the vaccine but 885 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:26,100 any fever would trigger it right yes 886 00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:27,930 early and then also there was the boy 887 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:30,720 who contracted polio from the life polio 888 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:32,610 vaccine because he didn't have a fully 889 00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:36,090 functioning immune system right so but 890 00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:37,830 the anti-vaxxers are furious because 891 00:37:42,110 --> 00:37:40,470 they didn't have that she didn't cover 892 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:42,120 the thousands of brain injured children 893 00:37:45,740 --> 00:37:44,250 across the world that they apparently 894 00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:45,750 have 895 00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:48,630 and this it only occurred to me after I 896 00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,390 saw it again that in that interview with 897 00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:53,760 Sonia I asked her that question I said 898 00:37:58,970 --> 00:37:56,880 how did you get the reactions to 899 00:38:01,100 --> 00:37:58,980 covering the in the documentary and she 900 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:01,110 said that she asked people solicit she 901 00:38:05,540 --> 00:38:03,570 said send me information about your kids 902 00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,550 if they've been vaccine injury I want to 903 00:38:10,610 --> 00:38:08,160 investigate and she said I received 904 00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:10,620 thousands of reactions i could not 905 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:13,470 confirm yeah I could not when I tried to 906 00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:15,210 follow them up I wasn't given phone 907 00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,430 numbers I wasn't given contact with the 908 00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:19,680 families I wasn't given the doctors and 909 00:38:23,540 --> 00:38:21,540 I needed to speak to doctors I needed to 910 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:23,550 see the diagnosis I needed to confirm it 911 00:38:27,830 --> 00:38:26,010 out of all these thousands that she read 912 00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:27,840 thru none of them could be confirmed 913 00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:31,020 yeah so here we have I remember here we 914 00:38:35,330 --> 00:38:33,510 have Meryl Dory saying she's got a 915 00:38:37,610 --> 00:38:35,340 database of thousands of children who 916 00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:37,620 apparently brain damaged and dead from 917 00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:40,110 vaccines they had an opportunity of a 918 00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:42,750 lifetime to get to a documentary maker 919 00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,420 have her tell their story where were 920 00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:48,480 they that day why weren't they bring it 921 00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:49,980 and the ones that she received she 922 00:38:53,570 --> 00:38:51,630 couldn't confirm because they would 923 00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:53,580 simply not respond to her now I think 924 00:38:57,230 --> 00:38:55,950 that's very telling me that's right yeah 925 00:39:00,650 --> 00:38:57,240 and I think the other thing is very 926 00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:00,660 telling is the the cases that were 927 00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:03,720 presented on there the parents of these 928 00:39:10,570 --> 00:39:06,030 children and his children was us you 929 00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:10,580 know have been you know severely damaged 930 00:39:16,130 --> 00:39:13,560 they support vaccinations yes as they 931 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:16,140 they recognize that you know for example 932 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:19,050 the little boy who developed this 933 00:39:23,770 --> 00:39:20,450 epilepsy 934 00:39:26,859 --> 00:39:23,780 his parents have chosen not to vaccinate 935 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:26,869 him any further because of the fact that 936 00:39:33,069 --> 00:39:30,530 he is at risk of having further seizures 937 00:39:35,319 --> 00:39:33,079 and which is very dangerous for him so 938 00:39:38,849 --> 00:39:35,329 as they said they rely on other people 939 00:39:43,210 --> 00:39:38,859 vaccinated they rely on the communities 940 00:39:45,010 --> 00:39:43,220 as you say dr. Richie community it's not 941 00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:45,020 my phrase by the way I adopted it but I 942 00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:46,609 think it's since I'm it's brilliant I 943 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:49,520 think it's a great human yeah yeah so 944 00:39:55,420 --> 00:39:53,359 you know I just I just wonder where and 945 00:39:58,359 --> 00:39:55,430 this is when I want to posted this up 946 00:40:00,220 --> 00:39:58,369 somewhere on online people wrote back 947 00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:00,230 and said well remember when there was a 948 00:40:04,270 --> 00:40:02,089 Sunday night program the original Sunday 949 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:04,280 night program when 20 McHenry and then 950 00:40:08,410 --> 00:40:06,290 Meryl door years ago wanted to have a 951 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:08,420 debate and Michael Monroe said to her 952 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:09,890 you said you were going to bring back 953 00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:11,450 seen injured children to this program 954 00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:14,960 where are they didn't show up apparently 955 00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:17,180 there was an insight edition of a show 956 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:19,160 called inside which is a panel show when 957 00:40:22,329 --> 00:40:20,510 she also claimed she could bring 958 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:22,339 hundreds of vaccine injured children 959 00:40:28,089 --> 00:40:26,450 never happened so I'm because there's 960 00:40:29,410 --> 00:40:28,099 been so much publicity Richard in the 961 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:29,420 meantime I've actually been doing some 962 00:40:34,329 --> 00:40:31,250 work as well and one of those things are 963 00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:34,339 really I know right I wrote I wrote a 964 00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,260 post about myths of vaccination which is 965 00:40:39,339 --> 00:40:37,760 just gone mental I'm not quite sure why 966 00:40:41,170 --> 00:40:39,349 everyone likes it better it's been 967 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:41,180 syndicated all over the place this is 968 00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:43,490 quite the wild it's still going though 969 00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:46,190 but but you wrote this for Mamma Mia was 970 00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:48,560 little I wrote one from over Mia two 971 00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:51,200 years ago and then the conversation 972 00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:52,700 asked me to write another one when I was 973 00:40:58,420 --> 00:40:55,609 in Manchester you were on the mama mio 974 00:41:00,700 --> 00:40:58,430 TV show about what two three years ago 975 00:41:03,099 --> 00:41:00,710 yeah yeah so I wrote another one called 976 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:03,109 six mix the vaccinations when I was in 977 00:41:10,359 --> 00:41:06,290 Manchester anyway so I was interviewed 978 00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:10,369 for that on monday and i was very 979 00:41:16,450 --> 00:41:14,000 interested and i'm very pleased that 980 00:41:18,099 --> 00:41:16,460 when the producer said to me how do you 981 00:41:20,170 --> 00:41:18,109 want me to introduce you and i said well 982 00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:20,180 i'm a research fellow at the University 983 00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:22,250 of Technology in this department and he 984 00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:24,800 said okay and went away for a while and 985 00:41:29,170 --> 00:41:27,020 came back and said okay we've just 986 00:41:31,630 --> 00:41:29,180 googled you and we've just checked that 987 00:41:33,630 --> 00:41:31,640 that is who you are and according to the 988 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:33,640 University website this is what you're 989 00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:34,930 title is so we're going to go with that 990 00:41:40,109 --> 00:41:37,839 is that arrived I said sure and he said 991 00:41:42,359 --> 00:41:40,119 well because we have to be very careful 992 00:41:43,740 --> 00:41:42,369 about how we present people when we talk 993 00:41:46,019 --> 00:41:43,750 about vaccinations on this on this 994 00:41:47,609 --> 00:41:46,029 program we have to confirm they are who 995 00:41:50,579 --> 00:41:47,619 they say they are because we don't want 996 00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:50,589 to misrepresent the information and I 997 00:41:55,529 --> 00:41:52,900 thought that was really impressive yeah 998 00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:55,539 yeah that's that's that's that's good to 999 00:41:59,309 --> 00:41:57,730 know that's good to say and but then as 1000 00:42:01,319 --> 00:41:59,319 part of the interview then because 1001 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:01,329 they'd gone off and googled me one of 1002 00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:02,650 the questions of the interview was oh 1003 00:42:06,750 --> 00:42:04,510 you're being very critiqued all over the 1004 00:42:10,410 --> 00:42:06,760 internet I you how much abuse do you get 1005 00:42:12,569 --> 00:42:10,420 what you do like the chem across some 1006 00:42:14,490 --> 00:42:12,579 stuff on google that people were not 1007 00:42:16,890 --> 00:42:14,500 saying nice things about me Oh Reggie I 1008 00:42:19,289 --> 00:42:16,900 can't believe it's true they're flying 1009 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:19,299 monkeys that's right now anybody who 1010 00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:21,010 listened to solar flare would know about 1011 00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:22,599 the flying monkeys of course and we all 1012 00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:24,460 battled the flying monkeys on solar 1013 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:27,220 flare and if anybody listen to solar 1014 00:42:30,930 --> 00:42:28,690 flare and didn't get the big hint who 1015 00:42:33,870 --> 00:42:30,940 the flying monkeys are they are 1016 00:42:36,299 --> 00:42:33,880 basically the anti-vaccine zealots yeah 1017 00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:36,309 that's a good way to put it i think I'd 1018 00:42:41,730 --> 00:42:38,140 she has the Sydney Morning Herald put it 1019 00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:41,740 right The Telegraph yeah and by the way 1020 00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:43,599 thank you all for taking part in solar 1021 00:42:48,059 --> 00:42:46,089 flare in fact the three of you here at 1022 00:42:51,299 --> 00:42:48,069 this table you did all your parts a bit 1023 00:42:52,859 --> 00:42:51,309 later than everybody else at all sort of 1024 00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:52,869 different times but it all came together 1025 00:42:56,490 --> 00:42:54,430 quite well i think it was quite I mean 1026 00:42:59,970 --> 00:42:56,500 Joe and around we discovered you in a 1027 00:43:03,349 --> 00:42:59,980 cave dr. AG was constantly after norms 1028 00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,359 cause I'm not like that in real life 1029 00:43:09,359 --> 00:43:05,680 it's amazing folks we've been sitting 1030 00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:09,369 here recording the think tank and the 1031 00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:11,980 voice you hear above me is a the 1032 00:43:16,859 --> 00:43:13,839 announcement from upstairs somebody just 1033 00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:16,869 won a car at how club it's it's quite 1034 00:43:21,390 --> 00:43:19,119 incredible I want me I'm also no 1035 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:21,400 strategy bus yeah I wouldn't hear the 1036 00:43:25,319 --> 00:43:23,170 courtesy bus again to but somebody just 1037 00:43:27,509 --> 00:43:25,329 with us you want to win the courtesy by 1038 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:27,519 good heavens Joe you've got a quick 1039 00:43:32,009 --> 00:43:29,890 thing to say to us about textbooks okay 1040 00:43:33,569 --> 00:43:32,019 so I'm I know you might people might 1041 00:43:36,499 --> 00:43:33,579 have seen this in the media recently but 1042 00:43:39,799 --> 00:43:36,509 there's a text book out there called 1043 00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:39,809 midwifery preparation for practice and 1044 00:43:44,890 --> 00:43:42,400 this textbook as it turns out is 1045 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:44,900 actually probably the 1046 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:46,970 if not one of one of the core textbooks 1047 00:43:51,970 --> 00:43:49,130 for midwives in Australia and New 1048 00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:51,980 Zealand and I think probably also into 1049 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:54,760 some international courses as well and 1050 00:44:00,370 --> 00:43:57,290 what came to our attention is that 1051 00:44:02,850 --> 00:44:00,380 there's a section in the textbook which 1052 00:44:05,140 --> 00:44:02,860 talks about vaccinations and 1053 00:44:07,690 --> 00:44:05,150 specifically talks about the role of the 1054 00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:07,700 Midwife and discussing vaccination with 1055 00:44:15,790 --> 00:44:12,950 with parents and the language used is 1056 00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:15,800 very concerning but more than that it 1057 00:44:20,650 --> 00:44:18,700 actually refers students to the 1058 00:44:22,570 --> 00:44:20,660 Australian vaccination Network website 1059 00:44:25,180 --> 00:44:22,580 as a source of information on 1060 00:44:27,250 --> 00:44:25,190 vaccinations that I won't read you out 1061 00:44:29,650 --> 00:44:27,260 the whole section but it talks about a 1062 00:44:31,330 --> 00:44:29,660 midwife his philosophy includes informed 1063 00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:31,340 choice it talks about you know setting 1064 00:44:36,070 --> 00:44:34,640 aside personal biases and so on and it 1065 00:44:39,820 --> 00:44:36,080 really just uses language that's very 1066 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:39,830 worrying now I had to look actually in 1067 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:41,810 it you know this book as I said it's 1068 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:44,570 used widely across every campus so the 1069 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:46,730 vortexes in touch or text and it's being 1070 00:44:51,790 --> 00:44:49,250 used in it's been you been out since 1071 00:44:54,070 --> 00:44:51,800 2007 it's now in its second edition and 1072 00:44:59,950 --> 00:44:54,080 that text actually is in both editions 1073 00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,960 well now Jane Hansen actually brought 1074 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:01,520 this issue up as she wrote an article 1075 00:45:05,770 --> 00:45:03,290 about this is part of the no job no play 1076 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:05,780 campaign as well and she actually 1077 00:45:09,970 --> 00:45:07,730 interviewed professor Hannah dalen who's 1078 00:45:11,350 --> 00:45:09,980 an executive member of the New South 1079 00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,360 Wales branch of the Australian College 1080 00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:14,480 of Midwives and hammered islands 1081 00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:17,150 response i found really quite concerning 1082 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:20,960 she stated that a student would be smart 1083 00:45:24,580 --> 00:45:22,490 enough to know that anything from the 1084 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:24,590 NHMRC and the Ministry of Health is 1085 00:45:28,060 --> 00:45:26,210 usually based on evidence and has a 1086 00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:28,070 public health interest and she would 1087 00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:29,510 quickly cotton on to the fact that there 1088 00:45:36,730 --> 00:45:31,220 are some fairly radical views on the avn 1089 00:45:38,770 --> 00:45:36,740 site now I'm sorry but this text book 1090 00:45:41,290 --> 00:45:38,780 was written by a number of professors of 1091 00:45:43,540 --> 00:45:41,300 wind were free and as far as I'm 1092 00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:43,550 concerned these people should be 1093 00:45:48,490 --> 00:45:45,380 modeling critical thinking to their 1094 00:45:50,110 --> 00:45:48,500 students if they were unable to 1095 00:45:52,810 --> 00:45:50,120 recognize that they were referring the 1096 00:45:55,180 --> 00:45:52,820 students to an anti-vaccination website 1097 00:45:58,210 --> 00:45:55,190 how do they expect their students to 1098 00:46:00,610 --> 00:45:58,220 pick up on this smacks of laziness in a 1099 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:00,620 way well either something has seriously 1100 00:46:07,930 --> 00:46:03,850 fallen down in their editing process um 1101 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:07,940 or you know the person who wrote it 1102 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:10,370 maybe is sympathetic to these views I 1103 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:12,890 don't know that I can't can't assume 1104 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:14,450 anything but i find the language very 1105 00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:16,010 worried and this is not the first time 1106 00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:18,020 this has happened with midwives in new 1107 00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:20,480 south wales because they previously sent 1108 00:46:24,970 --> 00:46:22,310 an invitation to their entire membership 1109 00:46:26,290 --> 00:46:24,980 to come to an avian seminar and it 1110 00:46:27,730 --> 00:46:26,300 wasn't until they were alerted to the 1111 00:46:29,890 --> 00:46:27,740 fact that it was anti-vaccination that 1112 00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:29,900 they would do that invitation so we 1113 00:46:33,540 --> 00:46:31,910 don't know in that instance either if 1114 00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:33,550 that was a mistake or if it was 1115 00:46:38,460 --> 00:46:36,470 deliberate if you like I will and in 1116 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:38,470 fact one of the young going back to the 1117 00:46:42,610 --> 00:46:40,970 article that not the article the survey 1118 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:42,620 that Merle door is just released there 1119 00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:45,050 was you know assuming it's true one of 1120 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:47,270 the stories in there actually talks 1121 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:51,050 about a family who were very uncertain 1122 00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:53,210 about vaccinating their children and a 1123 00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:55,910 midwife overheard them discussing their 1124 00:47:00,160 --> 00:46:57,530 concerns and referred them on to the 1125 00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:00,170 avian huh yes and this is one more thing 1126 00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:01,160 I want to add on that as well because 1127 00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:03,590 the ABN keeps going on about how really 1128 00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:07,160 educated people anti-vaccine this survey 1129 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:09,140 there was nobody represented with more 1130 00:47:14,410 --> 00:47:12,530 than a basic degree and also any health 1131 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:14,420 professionals that identified were 1132 00:47:19,780 --> 00:47:16,850 midwives nurses or chiropractors or 1133 00:47:21,790 --> 00:47:19,790 osteopaths there were no doctors doctors 1134 00:47:23,650 --> 00:47:21,800 which is what the avian always says is 1135 00:47:24,910 --> 00:47:23,660 old doctors don't vaccinate and they 1136 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:24,920 don't vaccinate their own children there 1137 00:47:30,550 --> 00:47:27,710 was no membership of traditional 1138 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:30,560 medicine on their survey and the other 1139 00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:32,210 thing is that as I understand it that 1140 00:47:37,450 --> 00:47:34,820 you know there was a feeling that um you 1141 00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:37,460 know these students should have have 1142 00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:41,300 access to you know both sides and blah 1143 00:47:45,250 --> 00:47:43,430 blah blah but what was that big red flag 1144 00:47:47,590 --> 00:47:45,260 that we were talking about earlier it 1145 00:47:52,330 --> 00:47:47,600 was some unfortunate choice what a big 1146 00:47:54,070 --> 00:47:52,340 red flag that is I mean if we have as we 1147 00:47:55,870 --> 00:47:54,080 discussed the you know if they're going 1148 00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:55,880 to teach the controversy is just 1149 00:48:00,190 --> 00:47:57,890 synthesis this this is a midwifery 1150 00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:00,200 course you should talk about eugenics 1151 00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:02,750 and well on to euthanasia maybe 1152 00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:05,630 I topics in the index valid topics for 1153 00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,270 we made webs to discuss if there's a 1154 00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:10,400 different thing in teaching it as a as a 1155 00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,470 comparison and a critique and to teach 1156 00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:14,000 critical thinking that just put it out 1157 00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:17,870 there you know it's one thing to you 1158 00:48:23,980 --> 00:48:19,720 know the thing is and this was actually 1159 00:48:27,610 --> 00:48:23,990 the point I made dumb to Jane Hansen was 1160 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:27,620 that midwives are have access to parents 1161 00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:30,050 an incredibly vulnerable point you know 1162 00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:31,730 this is a point where they need good 1163 00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:35,870 information and to be putting them in a 1164 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:37,640 position where they are going to be 1165 00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:38,930 spreading this kind of misinformation 1166 00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,360 and the thing is I know there are plenty 1167 00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:43,280 of midwives out there who are incredibly 1168 00:48:48,820 --> 00:48:45,830 supportive of vaccination or are very 1169 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:48,830 Pro science but we also know that there 1170 00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:50,930 are quite a number out there who have 1171 00:48:56,890 --> 00:48:53,750 some very strange views enemy this is 1172 00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:56,900 where it originates Joe who knows we 1173 00:49:01,450 --> 00:48:58,970 just don't know the avian are very 1174 00:49:05,170 --> 00:49:01,460 heavily into promoting home birth oh 1175 00:49:06,820 --> 00:49:05,180 yeah yeah yeah and and I think the thing 1176 00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:06,830 is that ultimately if Nursing and 1177 00:49:12,610 --> 00:49:09,080 Midwifery are the science-based 1178 00:49:14,980 --> 00:49:12,620 professions that we plan to be then 1179 00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:14,990 there's no room for this other side 1180 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:17,780 either we are science-based or we're not 1181 00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:20,210 yeah so you can't have it both ways 1182 00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:22,880 again I'm getting a bit were discussing 1183 00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:25,310 earlier one of the things that I'm very 1184 00:49:31,380 --> 00:49:28,310 pleased to see that all of us especially 1185 00:49:33,820 --> 00:49:31,390 you join you you dr. H II have been 1186 00:49:36,010 --> 00:49:33,830 pushing and getting the media to changes 1187 00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:36,020 this idea of false balance that's what 1188 00:49:39,460 --> 00:49:37,310 I've been working on this for a really 1189 00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:39,470 long time and I just say it up front now 1190 00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:41,390 to Joe knows i will not participate in 1191 00:49:45,850 --> 00:49:43,250 this story if there's false balance 1192 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:45,860 involved but you know curiously a friend 1193 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:47,330 of mine called me today because an 1194 00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:49,730 article appeared in the paper and there 1195 00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:52,430 was false balance and he got so angry he 1196 00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:55,520 ran up the journalist who said I don't 1197 00:49:59,110 --> 00:49:56,960 even know what you're talking about and 1198 00:50:00,850 --> 00:49:59,120 he was able to educate this journalist 1199 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:00,860 about what it means now the problem is 1200 00:50:04,690 --> 00:50:02,810 that a lot of our specialists 1201 00:50:06,070 --> 00:50:04,700 journalists have been fired now you know 1202 00:50:07,540 --> 00:50:06,080 we've had a lot of redundancies there 1203 00:50:09,250 --> 00:50:07,550 aren't health journalists working on 1204 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:09,260 these stories anymore there are social 1205 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:11,090 commentators or political reporters 1206 00:50:16,510 --> 00:50:13,370 these people are not aware of what false 1207 00:50:18,340 --> 00:50:16,520 balance is so we have to educate 1208 00:50:19,930 --> 00:50:18,350 journalist and the more media knows yeah 1209 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:19,940 and I think we've been incredibly 1210 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:22,490 successful at doing that I decision one 1211 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:25,490 point I didn't make was that Jillian 1212 00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:26,930 Skinner the new south wales Minister for 1213 00:50:31,950 --> 00:50:28,310 health in response to this has actually 1214 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:31,960 written to the the relevant colleges 1215 00:50:35,530 --> 00:50:33,890 requesting the text will be withdrawn 1216 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:35,540 now I haven't actually heard what the 1217 00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:38,690 results of that has been but you know 1218 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:40,640 that's just one state in Australia you 1219 00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:42,890 know I think we need to see this done 1220 00:50:47,050 --> 00:50:45,920 you know australia-wide until this has 1221 00:50:49,390 --> 00:50:47,060 been remedied and I think that in the 1222 00:50:51,250 --> 00:50:49,400 meantime every faculty which is using 1223 00:50:52,780 --> 00:50:51,260 this textbook should be notifying its 1224 00:50:55,300 --> 00:50:52,790 student that there is a serious error 1225 00:50:57,730 --> 00:50:55,310 and that what's the name of the textbook 1226 00:51:00,690 --> 00:50:57,740 it's called midwifery preparation for 1227 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:00,700 practice and you know as far as i know 1228 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:04,010 it's actually won some publishing awards 1229 00:51:08,020 --> 00:51:06,410 it's it's a highly regarded textbook and 1230 00:51:09,970 --> 00:51:08,030 i've got no reason to think that the 1231 00:51:13,230 --> 00:51:09,980 other information in the book is in any 1232 00:51:16,690 --> 00:51:13,240 way of concern but this is a big problem 1233 00:51:18,340 --> 00:51:16,700 certainly as certainly as well that's 1234 00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:18,350 the big issue at the moment of course 1235 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:19,910 and it's dominated this think tank but 1236 00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:21,410 we're going to change tagged a little 1237 00:51:25,150 --> 00:51:23,390 bit at the moment to wind things up as 1238 00:51:26,770 --> 00:51:25,160 we sit here backstage because we had to 1239 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:26,780 move because of the announcements over 1240 00:51:32,020 --> 00:51:29,210 the public address system with John bus 1241 00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:32,030 announcement so there there a raffle 1242 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:34,630 there's a giant raffle here at the club 1243 00:51:39,790 --> 00:51:37,970 wind turbines yeah well I thought you 1244 00:51:42,670 --> 00:51:39,800 know if we're talking about all the hot 1245 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:42,680 air coming from the avian and we're 1246 00:51:46,350 --> 00:51:44,210 talking about all kinds of quacks I'll 1247 00:51:50,170 --> 00:51:46,360 put them both together hot air in quacks 1248 00:51:54,580 --> 00:51:50,180 so there's this the there is any rot a 1249 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:54,590 growing how I don't know whether to call 1250 00:51:58,510 --> 00:51:55,970 it a controversy it's it's a 1251 00:52:00,880 --> 00:51:58,520 manufactured controversy around wind 1252 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:00,890 turbines and there is a there are people 1253 00:52:04,570 --> 00:52:02,690 who advocate the suggestion that there 1254 00:52:07,930 --> 00:52:04,580 is such a thing called wind turbine 1255 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:07,940 syndrome and typical as typical of many 1256 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:10,970 forms of quackery wind turbines call 1257 00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:15,490 cause anything from autism to cancer now 1258 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:18,110 I won't say too much about it because 1259 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:21,410 our readers of the skeptic magazine will 1260 00:52:25,870 --> 00:52:23,450 be able to find some articles about this 1261 00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:25,880 you know you bb w dot skeptics calmed 1262 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:27,670 are you making sure I'm 1263 00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:29,530 to have had a hand in putting this kind 1264 00:52:34,109 --> 00:52:31,599 of this thing together but I've been in 1265 00:52:36,539 --> 00:52:34,119 touch with several people regarding this 1266 00:52:39,180 --> 00:52:36,549 story and it's all very interesting in 1267 00:52:41,339 --> 00:52:39,190 just last weekend there was an episode 1268 00:52:44,579 --> 00:52:41,349 of ABC radio national's background 1269 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:44,589 briefing about wind turbines in the 1270 00:52:51,329 --> 00:52:48,970 interviewed person by Sarah Laurie who's 1271 00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:51,339 a former doctor former medical doctor 1272 00:52:57,210 --> 00:52:54,250 she registration has lapsed but she 1273 00:53:01,319 --> 00:52:57,220 she's a morn of the major proponents of 1274 00:53:04,370 --> 00:53:01,329 this wind turbine syndrome and just to 1275 00:53:07,289 --> 00:53:04,380 listen to her again haven't been really 1276 00:53:09,180 --> 00:53:07,299 involved in in all of this debate so I 1277 00:53:11,609 --> 00:53:09,190 really don't know all the details as 1278 00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:11,619 much as we all know about the vaccines 1279 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:15,040 now but listening to her she sounded 1280 00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:17,530 like like a vaccine quack exactly the 1281 00:53:22,289 --> 00:53:20,559 same day same I did like the the context 1282 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:22,299 was different yeah but the arguments 1283 00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:25,290 works like this is this is like the anti 1284 00:53:30,329 --> 00:53:28,510 fluoride absolutely same thing it's same 1285 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:30,339 thing it's like first of all their 1286 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:32,770 choice of their choice of poison 1287 00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:35,770 whatever it is causes all the different 1288 00:53:39,690 --> 00:53:37,630 ailments you know like it run in and 1289 00:53:41,849 --> 00:53:39,700 then the evidence that they require is 1290 00:53:44,339 --> 00:53:41,859 it's not even flimsy it's just not 1291 00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:44,349 evidence you know like so and then when 1292 00:53:50,250 --> 00:53:47,250 they when the interviewer chart 1293 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:50,260 challenges her on on the ethics of the 1294 00:53:53,970 --> 00:53:52,150 of the information that she collects 1295 00:53:56,190 --> 00:53:53,980 because she actually does studies on 1296 00:53:59,039 --> 00:53:56,200 people by collecting information about 1297 00:54:02,690 --> 00:53:59,049 them and all that and and she also some 1298 00:54:05,609 --> 00:54:02,700 studies involved the N equals one 1299 00:54:10,410 --> 00:54:05,619 particular to study no not a case study 1300 00:54:12,690 --> 00:54:10,420 a study and and she went challenged on 1301 00:54:15,539 --> 00:54:12,700 on it she says you know she she's not 1302 00:54:17,579 --> 00:54:15,549 fazed by it you know as far as it as far 1303 00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:17,589 as she's concerned it's all for the good 1304 00:54:21,569 --> 00:54:19,030 of whatever it is just that she's 1305 00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:21,579 providing complete cook complete 1306 00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:22,780 quackery yeah it's absolutely 1307 00:54:27,420 --> 00:54:24,520 astonishing and I recommend everybody 1308 00:54:29,339 --> 00:54:27,430 get the skeptic magazine and read this 1309 00:54:32,020 --> 00:54:29,349 it's not actually one article it's a 1310 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:32,030 series of articles coming 1311 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:34,530 edition of the skeptic magazine and it's 1312 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:36,690 it's all very interesting and new to me 1313 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:39,810 and but all new and old at the same time 1314 00:54:45,490 --> 00:54:42,090 you know a new context the same old 1315 00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:45,500 tactics I I to get again because of this 1316 00:54:50,750 --> 00:54:47,940 goings-on up in Queens lat at the moment 1317 00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:50,760 at Rockhampton another I think it's cans 1318 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:53,310 and lancia taking flew right out of the 1319 00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:54,810 water because somebody went up there 1320 00:54:58,910 --> 00:54:56,940 with a snappy PowerPoint presentation 1321 00:55:00,320 --> 00:54:58,920 and gave the same sort of arguments who 1322 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:00,330 have heard from the anti-vaxxers you 1323 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:02,010 aunt thicken the the poison the 1324 00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:03,810 conspiracy you look at these results 1325 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:05,940 blah blah blah and of course people are 1326 00:55:10,010 --> 00:55:08,970 dazzled by it the counselors and next 1327 00:55:12,620 --> 00:55:10,020 thing you know they're taking the 1328 00:55:14,180 --> 00:55:12,630 fluoride out of the South America this 1329 00:55:16,310 --> 00:55:14,190 week as well where they were having a 1330 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:16,320 the same problem also with you know 1331 00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:18,330 people campaigning to take the right out 1332 00:55:23,330 --> 00:55:20,960 of the water and they were lobbying 1333 00:55:25,580 --> 00:55:23,340 we've got one of the governor's I can't 1334 00:55:27,050 --> 00:55:25,590 reach state I was in but yeah they got 1335 00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:27,060 it through as well it was the same thing 1336 00:55:30,260 --> 00:55:28,500 and it was partly also due to low voter 1337 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:30,270 turnout and people with the vested 1338 00:55:34,340 --> 00:55:31,890 interest that they got it through as 1339 00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:34,350 well joe says to me with a dazzling 1340 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:41,520 teeth oh thank you flew ride I'm hate by 1341 00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:45,810 big fluoride I think you just started a 1342 00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,380 meme so um in fact a reminds me of 1343 00:55:52,550 --> 00:55:51,119 another episode of background background 1344 00:55:55,490 --> 00:55:52,560 briefing that was just on recently 1345 00:55:57,170 --> 00:55:55,500 talking about Lyme disease and I can use 1346 00:56:01,120 --> 00:55:57,180 it when you say that you should see Lyme 1347 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:01,130 disease with square as a quote i'm just 1348 00:56:06,770 --> 00:56:03,210 we're scare quotes of course this is a 1349 00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:06,780 podcast i forget um where you know 1350 00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:09,720 there's a number of doctors in australia 1351 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:14,960 actually should also do doctors with who 1352 00:56:20,349 --> 00:56:18,210 are claiming to have you know tens and 1353 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:20,359 hundreds of patients with lyme disease 1354 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:22,770 and people aren't aware there's you know 1355 00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:24,810 in America there there there are 1356 00:56:28,790 --> 00:56:26,609 definite you know confirmed cases of 1357 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:28,800 this illness but in Australia there is 1358 00:56:31,790 --> 00:56:29,970 absolutely no evidence that this 1359 00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:31,800 condition exists here however there are 1360 00:56:34,790 --> 00:56:33,390 a number of people a lot of people who 1361 00:56:37,050 --> 00:56:34,800 actually claim to have it it's because 1362 00:56:40,650 --> 00:56:37,060 it's become quite a 1363 00:56:43,490 --> 00:56:40,660 a sort of vocal group sort of pushing 1364 00:56:47,970 --> 00:56:43,500 for this to be recognized as a diagnosis 1365 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:47,980 so one of these doctors trotted off to 1366 00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:50,050 an infectious diseases seminar recently 1367 00:56:56,580 --> 00:56:52,510 and presented a poster with what were 1368 00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:56,590 his two best case studies of that that 1369 00:57:02,220 --> 00:56:59,760 he felt supported his his claim and the 1370 00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:02,230 journalist had clearly done some good 1371 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:04,090 investigating turned her and said to him 1372 00:57:09,630 --> 00:57:07,810 um did you not think it was important 1373 00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:09,640 and perhaps conflict of interest to 1374 00:57:17,970 --> 00:57:11,110 mention that one of the people in this 1375 00:57:20,250 --> 00:57:17,980 case that is your brother all right 1376 00:57:23,070 --> 00:57:20,260 Deary me from wind turbines to Lyme 1377 00:57:25,020 --> 00:57:23,080 disease to Florida's a Shinto to the 1378 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:25,030 anti-vaccination crowd who are having a 1379 00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:27,970 bit of a tough time right now I want to 1380 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:29,020 thank you all for coming to this 1381 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:32,050 disjointed think tank mmm can I just say 1382 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:33,850 one thing we of course shine off before 1383 00:57:38,940 --> 00:57:35,890 it's midnight before it's midnight and I 1384 00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:38,950 just wanted to let everyone know friends 1385 00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:41,830 of science in medicine are very busy 1386 00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:44,590 we've got a huge amount going on and you 1387 00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:46,510 can actually now follow us on Twitter we 1388 00:57:53,130 --> 00:57:49,740 have a Twitter account friends of Simon 1389 00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:53,140 scime ed and we also have a Facebook 1390 00:58:01,740 --> 00:57:56,770 page another person take a like 1391 00:58:04,170 --> 00:58:01,750 spaghetti monster so please follow us 1392 00:58:06,330 --> 00:58:04,180 and and the other thing that's really 1393 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:06,340 important to know is anyone can become a 1394 00:58:12,750 --> 00:58:11,170 friend of fsm or a friend of FM we you 1395 00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:12,760 don't have to be a medical professional 1396 00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:15,760 you don't have to have you know medical 1397 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:17,920 credentials we want any supporters out 1398 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:20,890 there who support our principles of you 1399 00:58:24,570 --> 00:58:22,330 know as we called science and medicine 1400 00:58:28,140 --> 00:58:24,580 so please go on to the website science 1401 00:58:29,490 --> 00:58:28,150 in medicine or a you and you can just 1402 00:58:32,070 --> 00:58:29,500 send a letter and express your interest 1403 00:58:37,140 --> 00:58:32,080 and come on board I can really recommend 1404 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:37,150 of it it's a fantastic endeavor and I'm 1405 00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:38,530 so pleased that you're part of the job 1406 00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:40,630 thank you that's really excellent well 1407 00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:42,670 yes from this disjointed think tankers 1408 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:44,110 we had to move rooms because of the 1409 00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:45,610 announcements outside i want to thank 1410 00:58:50,299 --> 00:58:47,910 dr. AG thank you John 1411 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:50,309 thank you enjoy your jacket thank you it 1412 00:58:55,220 --> 00:58:52,770 all all crew members on the solar flare 1413 00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:55,230 by the way effort taking part in this 1414 00:58:59,630 --> 00:58:57,210 think tank and until the next thing tank 1415 00:59:03,410 --> 00:58:59,640 cheers everybody obviously just don't 1416 00:59:08,690 --> 00:59:03,420 forget to mention the solar flare and 1417 00:59:31,550 --> 00:59:08,700 listen to solar flare oh I didn't even 1418 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:35,100 hi I'm audit oh yeah Kristen or evil 1419 00:59:38,430 --> 00:59:36,730 tips advice on logic lifted all the 1420 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:38,440 skeptics ohm ohm skip the comedian or 1421 00:59:41,730 --> 00:59:40,150 again the finish can prob get upper 1422 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:41,740 bleph a podcast of ran against kept 1423 00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:42,850 systems even met you look if I'm a 1424 00:59:47,490 --> 00:59:45,280 practice match since Rob I skip system 1425 00:59:49,290 --> 00:59:47,500 and loop or hardcover says the deep plan 1426 00:59:50,970 --> 00:59:49,300 architecture and calendar / skip this 1427 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:50,980 character death at all until on will 1428 00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,570 escape this gate Association sketches 1429 00:59:55,170 --> 00:59:54,160 blog in ops Authority Emily Oh discrete 1430 00:59:57,780 --> 00:59:55,180 areas have to tape escapes is for 1431 01:00:01,260 --> 00:59:57,790 domestic e nom de estar de also skip say 1432 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:01,270 stop mo hello I'm moderate and I'm 1433 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:03,130 Kristin and we want to let you know that 1434 01:00:07,140 --> 01:00:05,050 there are lots of Norwegian skeptics for 1435 01:00:08,730 --> 01:00:07,150 you to get to know their blogs and pub 1436 01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:08,740 meets and a podcast and the Norwegian 1437 01:00:12,420 --> 01:00:10,510 skeptics also do paranormal tests and 1438 01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:12,430 consumer activism to find out more 1439 01:00:31,050 --> 01:00:15,070 Google Norwegian skeptics or visit skep 1440 01:00:36,550 --> 01:00:33,730 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1441 01:00:39,820 --> 01:00:36,560 zone coming up on next week's show dr. 1442 01:00:42,790 --> 01:00:39,830 Richie on the radio it's great when our 1443 01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:42,800 people like dr. Richie I get interviewed 1444 01:00:47,230 --> 01:00:45,710 by M the mass media out there and coming 1445 01:00:49,450 --> 01:00:47,240 up on next week's show a wonderful 1446 01:00:54,190 --> 01:00:49,460 interview with our very own dr. ET on 1447 01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:54,200 ABC radio and apart from that well who 1448 01:00:59,920 --> 01:00:57,200 knows who knows it's it's it's a who can 1449 01:01:01,930 --> 01:00:59,930 see into the future I asked you I asked 1450 01:01:04,780 --> 01:01:01,940 you because I'm going to roll my d20 my 1451 01:01:07,390 --> 01:01:04,790 20-sided dice one more time are you 1452 01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:07,400 ready those people who guessed 11 guests 1453 01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:09,470 what am I talking about hoops mystically 1454 01:01:13,300 --> 01:01:11,080 saw 11 at the top of the show and 1455 01:01:15,550 --> 01:01:13,310 everybody else let's see how you go this 1456 01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:15,560 time are you thinking of a number here 1457 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:20,720 we go yeah you're not gonna believe this 1458 01:01:31,060 --> 01:01:25,730 folks it's true the 11 a kid you not i'm 1459 01:01:32,290 --> 01:01:31,070 looking at it now hmm one more this is 1460 01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:32,300 number three let's have another guy 1461 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:33,680 you'd thinking of another number right 1462 01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:36,530 I'm gonna make sure that's really like a 1463 01:01:46,930 --> 01:01:43,280 here we go seven while you ponder those 1464 01:01:48,490 --> 01:01:46,940 mysterious numbers 1111 seven there's 1465 01:01:51,220 --> 01:01:48,500 going to be a cosmic connection there 1466 01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:51,230 somewhere I'll say this is Richard 1467 01:02:03,190 --> 01:01:53,510 Saunders signing off from Sydney 1468 01:02:05,140 --> 01:02:03,200 Australia 18 you've been listening to 1469 01:02:09,130 --> 01:02:05,150 the skeptic zone 1470 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:09,140 visit our website at www skipped exhume